Natural Horsemanship

[Emily]

Originally Posted by montanagal

That's a great point the you brought up, Emily! Many people not familiar with horse training assume that NH training doesn't use props or tools from such basics as halters & leads to lunge lines or lunge whips. I, too, seldom use a lunge line in the round pen, as there is little point, unless I'm getting the horse used to giving to the line. I do use a lunge whip to great effect, though, on some of the greener horses or horses that do not "give" to my body position as well or if I'm working on tightening up some movement, to make my "arms" longer.

Yes! All tools are an extension of your arm when lunging! What I love most about lunging is that no matter what tools you use, if your body isn't right, you won't get anywhere. It's such great work, for rider and horse. Love, love, love it!

[Velaara]

Gent was a mental mess when I got him, horrid. He would run me through gates, buck me off, run away with me on the trail, bolt for no reason I could see other than he felt like he wanted to. He had not only been spoiled but also abused and hit a lot. I had bought the first two Parelli levels and tried to work on them with him, I spent LONG hours and in the end I sold the programs on Ebay. I think there is no one right way and people get caught up in the "rules" of how a program should work and don't listen enough to their horses. My horse doesn't play the 7 games the way Parelli has them laid out, but we communicate, and he does what I ask. I can move all parts of his body just by my body movements, without even touching him. We got there through trial and error.

I have spent hours and hours and hours on the ground in the round pen with him earning his respect and teaching him body language, and listening to his. You guys are absolutely right in what you say about using the round pen and ground work. It makes a world of difference. I could not lunge him at all in a larger arena with a lunge line, he would bolt and yank the rope and run away. In fact at one point he broke someone's fniger doing that (not mine). At first I couldn't even get him to walk into the large arena, much less the round pen, and he was so barn sour and herd bound I couldn't even move his nose off of the horse in front of me on the trail, and he would NEVER lead on the trail. He was fearful of almost everything.

The reason I say all of this about him is because yesterday, he and I went for our first trail ride together in two years of owning him, just he and I. And we did it calmly, on a loose rein, and it was all because I have spent two years getting him to this point, using ground work, patience, and I guess you could say NH techniques. I don't subscribe to any one NH trainer, I think most NH is common sense stuff and all of them have good aspects to their training programs. They do give you good coping skills to deal with problems and issues, providing you are willing to "take the time it takes" as Parelli would say.

A lot of people who don't understand horses would look at me and say, "WHY did you take two years to work on this horse just so you could trail ride him alone?" The level of trust we have built together has taken that long, and it doesn't happen overnight. As long as someone isn't looking for a quick fix, NH techniques used appropriately are the best way to train a horse, I just don't like the gimmick aspects of some of the "programs" and the cost is horrendous LOL.

[Xbreed]

I admit I don't do much with NH or know the names of too many people, but just from what little experience I do have, I like the work of Clinton Anderson. It's not that he necessarily does a better job than Monty Roberts or Pat Parelli, but it's that he explains his concepts realistically and practically. He doesn't try to make the horse a friend, he puts you in control by using whatever level of pressure makes the horse respond; and then he explains why he's taking away the pressure. He doesn't use "games" to get the point across; he uses exercises. Maybe it's all in the semantics and his people skills, but just from the stuff I've watched (mostly consisting of his GRCG dvds), he seems the most down-to-earth of the people I know.

Don't get me wrong, I've seen some NH stuff that seems really good and makes it look like a sort-of dance between human and horse...and then I've seen NH that makes it look so hokey and hilarious (seriously: staring intently at and marching towards your horses's butt...and then sending him off into the "Circle game" like you're explaining where Apollo 11 landed?) that I feel sorry for the poor horse!

Perhaps the thing about it that I really never quite got was that you had to buy into everything from each individual trainer. I think this page sums it up quite nicely, although it barely scratches the surface of all the overpriced things out there. And I do have to agree with the section regarding "the entity known as parelli"...it's such a huge marketing segment now. I know y'all probably have heard enough about this blog, but the topic of this particular segment is all too appropriate, as well as the relevant comments.

So I have my likes and my dislikes. I don't think I can put it any better than Velaara did though.

EDIT: Yikes, didn't think to check that this was a zombie thread!

[KatzNK9]

Originally Posted by Xbreed46290

EDIT: Yikes, didn't think to check that this was a zombie thread!

No problem ... interesting topic needed reviving for more input.

[Velaara]

Old threads are great, sometimes we go back and read something we posted and think, wow, did I really write that? LOL

Honestly most of my ideas in the post remain the same; however, I am more and more convinced that Parelli has a screw loose in his head after watching some of his programming on RFDTV, along with a few others. I don't subscribe to any NH person and I do agree Clinton Anderson explains things better and doesn't make everything a game. He makes the horse your riding partner, but not your best friend in that sense of the word. He is always the boss.

A horse will never be your "best friend" and buddy" in the sense that it's a bad idea to "play" too much with them the way Parelli does it. And I'm sorry, but I'm not going to trot or canter myself to get my horse to do it....no thanks. Communication with your horses is necessary, and learning how to do it correctly can save your life but unless you are the boss, they can hurt/kill you in a second without even meaning to, just by accident. You don't want 1000 pounds of animal to be running with you playing tag and rolling around in the arena dirt with you on a regular basis. Not to mention I refuse to roll arond in the dirt like I watched Parelli do LOL.

I saw Linda Parelli tell someone to give her horse a carrot every time he tries to bite her...thus diverting him with the carrot... That is a terrible idea! You are rewarding the attempt to bite with treats, so what happens if you don't HAVE a carrot and he tries to bite? You get bitten and hard, and it's not the horse's fault...he's doing what you taught him.

I say use what makes sense from "natural horsemanship" trainers that are such a fad now, but leave the fluff on the tack room floor and don't take it with you beacause unless you want to get hurt or have a circus horse, it's not all it's cracked up to be.

Natural Horsemanship is nothing more than proper and gentle training that has been done for a very long time by many many people, they just never had a name and marketing for it until recently.

[justamutt]

we practice alot of natural horsemanship at my school, primarly with groundwork at the moment. I really enjoy it and so does the horses. They are all willing as long as you know what you are doing and how to get the horse to respond through the correct body language. I think it is all about understanding how the horse works and thinks. I am getting ready to help break and work with some horses that belong to a mutual friend of mine and I plan to apply some of these methods like I do with my own horses. I'm excited to see how it goes. I know it works wonders with mine. My favorite is Pat Parelli (although I HAVE heard some people tell me bad things about him) i still like to wtch him work, John Lyons, Clinton Anderson, and Monty Roberts

[Xbreed]

Originally Posted by justamutt

we practice alot of natural horsemanship at my school, primarly with groundwork at the moment. I really enjoy it and so does the horses. They are all willing as long as you know what you are doing and how to get the horse to respond through the correct body language.

What school do you go to?

I took a tour at Meredith Manor to see if I might find any interest within to do horsey stuff as a career. The horses were very willing and biddable when handled, but when in their stalls they were absolute terrors. Their rule was "No punishment," and a vast majority of the horses we tried to pet (we were allowed to as part of the tour) pretty much tried to bite off our hands or arms. One of the students mentioned that anytime the stalls were cleaned, a flash noseband had to be put on the horse so it would leave you alone to work. I'd seen students working on lunging, except they called it "heating" and did it all weird...when I asked if they used NH methods based on any one particular trainer, they said it was based off the owner, Ron Meredith rather than Parelli (the technique to which the methods seemed most similar) or Anderson or anyone else. It's not that I wasn't impressed by the place, but I just didn't feel that "fit" vibe...not to mention that there was NO pasture and all the horses were kept in stalls except when working or out for a few minutes of free time in an arena. Probably didn't help their dispositions any. School still has a great rep though, so I can't slam it too bad, they're doing something right...but between the weird NH they used and some other things, I just couldn't justify going there.